<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why I&#8217;m Failing At Participative Rule Setting</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/</link>
	<description>A travel and general interest blog written by two guys living in China</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:54:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinarchy.com/?p=247#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Paul&#039;s idea sounds good to me I think.

This sounds incredibly challenging and I would find it a challenge even with children who speak English.  

Kudos for you for trying, though if it proves impossible, it may be better to focus on the things you *can* do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul&#8217;s idea sounds good to me I think.</p>
<p>This sounds incredibly challenging and I would find it a challenge even with children who speak English.  </p>
<p>Kudos for you for trying, though if it proves impossible, it may be better to focus on the things you *can* do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Crowder</title>
		<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Crowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinarchy.com/?p=247#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;re dealing with kids, so while culture is a problem, unless the adults interfere, they should adapt pretty easily.

Obviously language is a problem, as you can&#039;t speak to them in pure English.  But you can always supplement whatever you do with broken English!

If the goal is just to get them to understand the idea, perhaps you could use pictures, games, or some other visuals to express the concepts.  I can&#039;t draw, but I can imagine a comic strip with one frame where a teacher is showing a list of rules, with a cruel face, and violent gestures.  Then a frame where the students are following the rules, but they have sad faces.  The next frame would be a comparison.  The students and the teacher are talking about the rules.  They all look excited, and as they negotiate, the teacher makes a list of the rules they agree on.

I think something like this would be very successful with kids of all ages.  What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;re dealing with kids, so while culture is a problem, unless the adults interfere, they should adapt pretty easily.</p>
<p>Obviously language is a problem, as you can&#8217;t speak to them in pure English.  But you can always supplement whatever you do with broken English!</p>
<p>If the goal is just to get them to understand the idea, perhaps you could use pictures, games, or some other visuals to express the concepts.  I can&#8217;t draw, but I can imagine a comic strip with one frame where a teacher is showing a list of rules, with a cruel face, and violent gestures.  Then a frame where the students are following the rules, but they have sad faces.  The next frame would be a comparison.  The students and the teacher are talking about the rules.  They all look excited, and as they negotiate, the teacher makes a list of the rules they agree on.</p>
<p>I think something like this would be very successful with kids of all ages.  What do you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinarchy.com/?p=247#comment-149</guid>
		<description>I think this is what I would consider &quot;working.&quot; If the students were just able to understand that I wasn&#039;t trying to impose the rules on them but that I wanted them to have a say in what the rules were -- and that they deserve to have a say in such things. Even if they didn&#039;t follow the rules or whatever, I wouldn&#039;t care as long as they got that basic concept. 

Ideally, after a few weeks (or months or however long) the kids and I would get into a groove where rules weren&#039;t even necessary. Where we&#039;ve all negotiated to the point where we understand each others&#039; needs are in a comfortable no-lose position. But this can take a really, really long time.

I watched a video of one of England&#039;s best teachers. She started the participative rule setting in September, and they didn&#039;t really reach the &quot;groove&quot; until January. She had to spend 3 months referencing the rules they agreed to, amending them, doing problem solving and conflict resolution with the kids. 

But then, after all that time, it finally works. And she has a working, as-mutual-as-possible relationship with the students. And there is almost no need for things like rewards or punishments or discipline and only rare reminders of the rules.

That&#039;s not my goal. It&#039;s too far off. Right now I would consider it a success if I could just make them understand the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is what I would consider &#8220;working.&#8221; If the students were just able to understand that I wasn&#8217;t trying to impose the rules on them but that I wanted them to have a say in what the rules were &#8212; and that they deserve to have a say in such things. Even if they didn&#8217;t follow the rules or whatever, I wouldn&#8217;t care as long as they got that basic concept. </p>
<p>Ideally, after a few weeks (or months or however long) the kids and I would get into a groove where rules weren&#8217;t even necessary. Where we&#8217;ve all negotiated to the point where we understand each others&#8217; needs are in a comfortable no-lose position. But this can take a really, really long time.</p>
<p>I watched a video of one of England&#8217;s best teachers. She started the participative rule setting in September, and they didn&#8217;t really reach the &#8220;groove&#8221; until January. She had to spend 3 months referencing the rules they agreed to, amending them, doing problem solving and conflict resolution with the kids. </p>
<p>But then, after all that time, it finally works. And she has a working, as-mutual-as-possible relationship with the students. And there is almost no need for things like rewards or punishments or discipline and only rare reminders of the rules.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not my goal. It&#8217;s too far off. Right now I would consider it a success if I could just make them understand the idea.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Crowder</title>
		<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Crowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinarchy.com/?p=247#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Considering that you have to overcome cultural, linguistic, and conceptual barriers to try and implement this system, which are huge tasks individually, let alone combined, I think you&#039;re looking at a monumental task.  Not to say it&#039;s impossible, but just very difficult.  I&#039;d love to see you succeed though.  So to try and help you work out some possible solutions, I&#039;ve got to have something I can imagine.  And right now I&#039;m struggling to imagine what it&#039;d look like if this system &quot;worked&quot;, as I&#039;m not sure what you mean here.  Could you elaborate on what you mean by getting the system to &quot;work&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering that you have to overcome cultural, linguistic, and conceptual barriers to try and implement this system, which are huge tasks individually, let alone combined, I think you&#8217;re looking at a monumental task.  Not to say it&#8217;s impossible, but just very difficult.  I&#8217;d love to see you succeed though.  So to try and help you work out some possible solutions, I&#8217;ve got to have something I can imagine.  And right now I&#8217;m struggling to imagine what it&#8217;d look like if this system &#8220;worked&#8221;, as I&#8217;m not sure what you mean here.  Could you elaborate on what you mean by getting the system to &#8220;work&#8221;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://www.chinarchy.com/2010/03/why-im-failing-at-participative-rule-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinarchy.com/?p=247#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any particularly brilliant advice, since I had almost the exact same scenario play out when I tried having that discussion with my class. But I can tell you what I&#039;ve been doing, and maybe that will be helpful. I haven&#039;t really tried to implement the school rules, but I have focused on a couple of areas that I think are the most important.

For example, my class&#039; major issue is hitting, pinching, yelling and taking each other&#039;s things. So every few days, I&#039;ll talk with them about why hitting is bad, how it hurts other people, why we don&#039;t like other people to take our things, etc. And if I see it happening in class, I go over and talk to whoever is involved about what exactly happened, go over why we have this particular class &quot;rule,&quot; and try and do it in a way that helps them understand, rather than having it seem like me ordering them not to do something and they don&#039;t really know why. 

So that might be one way to approach it. Until you can communicate well enough to have the participative rule discussion, go over the things that are most important in your class, and work with them individually so they feel involved and not like you&#039;re imposing rules on them. And after awhile, when they speak more English and are more accustomed to your way of doing things, you can try and set the rules as a class again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any particularly brilliant advice, since I had almost the exact same scenario play out when I tried having that discussion with my class. But I can tell you what I&#8217;ve been doing, and maybe that will be helpful. I haven&#8217;t really tried to implement the school rules, but I have focused on a couple of areas that I think are the most important.</p>
<p>For example, my class&#8217; major issue is hitting, pinching, yelling and taking each other&#8217;s things. So every few days, I&#8217;ll talk with them about why hitting is bad, how it hurts other people, why we don&#8217;t like other people to take our things, etc. And if I see it happening in class, I go over and talk to whoever is involved about what exactly happened, go over why we have this particular class &#8220;rule,&#8221; and try and do it in a way that helps them understand, rather than having it seem like me ordering them not to do something and they don&#8217;t really know why. </p>
<p>So that might be one way to approach it. Until you can communicate well enough to have the participative rule discussion, go over the things that are most important in your class, and work with them individually so they feel involved and not like you&#8217;re imposing rules on them. And after awhile, when they speak more English and are more accustomed to your way of doing things, you can try and set the rules as a class again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

